Posted by Goldy_1914 on October 23, 2008 at 9:04am
I know this a the subject of a lot of people right about now. This year at UIL Milby raised a lot of questions. I observed and engaged in a lot of dialogue concerning showbands at UIL. Finally I decided to ask some of the powerful UIL coordinators, judges and band directors their opinions about it. Their response was sad but true.Marching Style-Showbands use 8 to 5 Marching which is great because its a form of Military Marching, only with popular music. However, 8 to 5 marching is difficult because if one person is a half step behind or ahead, the line is crooked. 8 to 5 marching is easy to judge and catch mistakes.Additionally with knee lift. Of course colleges have the knee lift down pact but most high schools dont. A few kids are popping 90s while others are marching 45s. The fat kids are barely picking their feet thus there is no uniformity.Dynamics-Most showbands including the colleges do their drill mostly at FF or FFF marking and keep it there the entire time. Although its great for a football game, contests rate on dynamics. If the entire drill is loud and woodwinds dont stand out, then your score will be low. It is difficult for a band to blend when everyone is playing full power for the entire song.Drilling-They love the step two drills and mentioned Southern, FAMU, PVU, Norfolk and even St. AugustineSo should a showband keep their style at UIL?After this conversation, I leaned more towards no and i know a lot of people dont agree. This is what was reccomended about showband style at UIL. This is from powerful white people.- Make sure EVERY BAND MEMBER's legs are the exact same distance from the ground. One person will ruin the score.- Add dynamics. Include crescendos, descrescendos, subitos and make sure there is a blend. Make sure your woodwinds are heard throughout the drill. Also have one place where they stand out as a section.- Make sure your 8 to 5 is precise. Everyone has to step off at the exact same second. If one person hesitates, the line will be crooked. Drummers have it really bad.-Make sure your music is appropriate. We all know what contest is about and how its judged. Having all of your music with a particular theme or a particular artist featured is a plus. Just playing random hot music throughout is not considered appropriate. Even if it does sound good, there is still no theme.I was glad Milby performed how they did and stirred up this type of conversation and dialogue. It really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I thought they were just being racists at first but now I somewhat understand.
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this year we learned a mix of show and corp to fantasy, in the stone and after the love is gone. We learned the show at practice on tuesday and on wednesday got straight 3s.
We played songs with dynamics and articulations and played at a Corp marching volume. Our 90s of course weren't uniform but what high schools are? Show musicianship and synchronization and you'll at least get 332. UNLESS your judges don't like showbands at all, which does happen...alot.
well i agree on some points but i disagree on other points!
as for dynamcis, you show me a band where there's 40 on brass and 20 on woodwinds and think you're gona hear a sax project more than a dam tbone or btone......???not gonna happen. woodwinds are the more softer spoken instruments in a band and usually stand out during concert band.. they normally play those detailed parts that are sometimes too difficult for brass players to execute properly. brass horns are for the projection now that doesnt mean blasting and killing all kinds of garbage.. but im tired of everyone putting emphasis on the wrong thing thats wrong with showbands...its not the style, nor the type of music... you just have some crappy directors at some schools that dont giva damn about any style...shiid, you can go in there doing all corps and still get rapped!!! so idk wats the point ppl are trying to make in terms of corps...PPL fail to realize that band is more of a culture than any other activity!!! i agree with the music part that it shoud include more than one dynamic level. but even if you put as many dynamics in your drill, march 45's instead of 90's you still going to have the powers that be rape you!!! and thats real... my thing is when all the minority bands give in to these types of suggestions it just validates the point that they are trying to make about our style... if we spent more time fixing our drills and making sure that it is musical, entertaining and has a good concept throughout then i dont see why are many bands changing their styles mid season whereas we all know it doesnt work that way for us!!! you cant do corps training for 1month and then think you're going in there and drill better than those guys who do those types of drills all season long!! they normally work on that drill from band camp until the end of their season in many cases that i personally know. wheras in showstyle band we normally change drills througout the season as we did when i marched at TxSu... everyone has their opinion and its nothing wrong with being versatile i just think that your enterpretation of many aspects of music should be open-minded and unbiased! thats just my opinion...
good argument brah.... I wish you could have been there to jump in that convo Tuesday.. It was intense.. I coulda used your help..
I got chopped at UIL real nasty because I had only 4 woodwinds... Hey I cant help it...
Most Corps Style Bands have choices. They have kids who can read and who strive to do things in life. We get kids who need a lot of work so we have to take whoever we get. Therefore our scores usually arent good. I remember being at Smiley getting straight 5s... But some of the stuff they are saying made a lof of sense. I just put what stood out to me. There was way more said that I listed.
Bandman said:
well i agree on some points but i disagree on other points! as for dynamcis, you show me a band where there's 40 on brass and 20 on woodwinds and think you're gona hear a sax project more than a dam tbone or btone......???not gonna happen. woodwinds are the more softer spoken instruments in a band and usually stand out during concert band.. they normally play those detailed parts that are sometimes too difficult for brass players to execute properly. brass horns are for the projection now that doesnt mean blasting and killing all kinds of garbage.. but im tired of everyone putting emphasis on the wrong thing thats wrong with showbands...its not the style, nor the type of music... you just have some crappy directors at some schools that dont giva damn about any style...shiid, you can go in there doing all corps and still get rapped!!! so idk wats the point ppl are trying to make in terms of corps...PPL fail to realize that band is more of a culture than any other activity!!! i agree with the music part that it shoud include more than one dynamic level. but even if you put as many dynamics in your drill, march 45's instead of 90's you still going to have the powers that be rape you!!! and thats real... my thing is when all the minority bands give in to these types of suggestions it just validates the point that they are trying to make about our style... if we spent more time fixing our drills and making sure that it is musical, entertaining and has a good concept throughout then i dont see why are many bands changing their styles mid season whereas we all know it doesnt work that way for us!!! you cant do corps training for 1month and then think you're going in there and drill better than those guys who do those types of drills all season long!! they normally work on that drill from band camp until the end of their season in many cases that i personally know. wheras in showstyle band we normally change drills througout the season as we did when i marched at TxSu... everyone has their opinion and its nothing wrong with being versatile i just think that your enterpretation of many aspects of music should be open-minded and unbiased! thats just my opinion...
Should Showbands keep their style at UIL ?
I know this a the subject of a lot of people right about now. This year at UIL Milby raised a lot of questions. I observed and engaged in a lot of di…
i agree to this, but like half the show should be a 2 step drill with a good drilling piece, then a up tempo song for jazzettes/majorettes, a nice smoothing ballad such as Sweet Love, Two Hearts, or what fits your band, but what bothers me is having a recording tune done for your dance line, IMO that just means that they didnt want to play during that time, or couldnt read that music, ive seen it done in 2A, 3A, 4A and 5A corp style bands
but for like a drill tune, its good to used something like a song with alot of moving parts, that shows the judges you can play a well written piece while popping 90s or 60s with the sway of some horns, but with an up todate song, same for danceline tune, but on a ballad, go old school!!
but there are cases where these judges do not like show bands period, i think they show have a judge from every style of marching to make it a fair competiton for all styles of band, so you can see what you need to work on in EVERY part in EVERY style so they can come back the next year with a more balenced sound, marching presision, and a well balenced band
and i have a question, has there ever been a case of a showband just getting tired of doing corp stlye for UIL and just come on the field pumpin 90s the entire field show, and something happened????
DrumMasterFDT said:
YES!!!! Show bands should do what they do best!!!! but, i would take off the dance routine off and add a ballad or somthing ??? But, thats just me LOL
Should Showbands keep their style at UIL ?
I know this a the subject of a lot of people right about now. This year at UIL Milby raised a lot of questions. I observed and engaged in a lot of di…
... just adding my two cents... UIL judging system is based on "perceptions" on what should</</u>b> be the standard</</b>u>...
Remember last year's quote from the state (Texas) UIL coordinator in a state wide news publication.... " ... showstyle or Gramburlesque style of marching is not the musical standard" ... ( which in my opinion was the most uneducated answer as to why MINORITIES... yes I said it!... don't get judge fairly in state ran UIL comp..., look at who is judging and making the rules...
if you want to argue about "setting musical standards" showstyle marching did not just start with US look at the band programs at Ohio, Mich., etc. (whose band programs and colleges reflect those of the "standard bearer") whose historical 8 to 5 high knee lift were started BEFORE heal toe contemporary floating drills.
the question should not be ask should/ or should'nt we keep a style ... but rather who is the one ... based on HIS/HER perception be setting the standard based on their LIMITED , NON- CULTURAL BASED MUSIC EDUCATION? ...
If UIL can accept Mariarchi Music (which is based in Spanish culture) .... why not level the playing field when it comes to instrumental field comp. by including judges that share the an unlimited cultural biased opinion on what is the "standard"?... and include what we do as a part a fine arts.... BUT if it does not happen... is our "musical self esteem" really that low that we need this perceived " standard bearer" to validate OUR music...
What they see is that some of their top notch programs going under. Demagraphics Change. I remember when Austin was pulling 2 at UIL, but they only had half the kids they have now. Demagraphics didn't change there but these people in high places hate to see SOME minorities get along with OTHER minorities. To some Hispanics college is college and if I can blow this horn or bang this drum I can go to TSU or PV (or UH or wherever) Tere are institutions that actually teach to hate showbands. I went to Eisenhower and the directors there could not stand when Willowridge went to the Rose Bowl, all because they were showstyle. Look at Ike...Demagrapics change... I honestly think that someone some where knows what they are doing. THERE IS A WHOLE REGION IN HISD WITH HARDLY NO FINE ARTS. Furr has no band because they KNOW it will be showstyle so they killed all the feeder programs as well same way they trying to kill SSS. HISD is getting sick of Furr going to the playoffs every year without a band.
Replies
We played songs with dynamics and articulations and played at a Corp marching volume. Our 90s of course weren't uniform but what high schools are? Show musicianship and synchronization and you'll at least get 332. UNLESS your judges don't like showbands at all, which does happen...alot.
DrumMasterFDT said:
as for dynamcis, you show me a band where there's 40 on brass and 20 on woodwinds and think you're gona hear a sax project more than a dam tbone or btone......???not gonna happen. woodwinds are the more softer spoken instruments in a band and usually stand out during concert band.. they normally play those detailed parts that are sometimes too difficult for brass players to execute properly. brass horns are for the projection now that doesnt mean blasting and killing all kinds of garbage.. but im tired of everyone putting emphasis on the wrong thing thats wrong with showbands...its not the style, nor the type of music... you just have some crappy directors at some schools that dont giva damn about any style...shiid, you can go in there doing all corps and still get rapped!!! so idk wats the point ppl are trying to make in terms of corps...PPL fail to realize that band is more of a culture than any other activity!!! i agree with the music part that it shoud include more than one dynamic level. but even if you put as many dynamics in your drill, march 45's instead of 90's you still going to have the powers that be rape you!!! and thats real... my thing is when all the minority bands give in to these types of suggestions it just validates the point that they are trying to make about our style... if we spent more time fixing our drills and making sure that it is musical, entertaining and has a good concept throughout then i dont see why are many bands changing their styles mid season whereas we all know it doesnt work that way for us!!! you cant do corps training for 1month and then think you're going in there and drill better than those guys who do those types of drills all season long!! they normally work on that drill from band camp until the end of their season in many cases that i personally know. wheras in showstyle band we normally change drills througout the season as we did when i marched at TxSu... everyone has their opinion and its nothing wrong with being versatile i just think that your enterpretation of many aspects of music should be open-minded and unbiased! thats just my opinion...
I got chopped at UIL real nasty because I had only 4 woodwinds... Hey I cant help it...
Most Corps Style Bands have choices. They have kids who can read and who strive to do things in life. We get kids who need a lot of work so we have to take whoever we get. Therefore our scores usually arent good. I remember being at Smiley getting straight 5s... But some of the stuff they are saying made a lof of sense. I just put what stood out to me. There was way more said that I listed.
Bandman said:
but for like a drill tune, its good to used something like a song with alot of moving parts, that shows the judges you can play a well written piece while popping 90s or 60s with the sway of some horns, but with an up todate song, same for danceline tune, but on a ballad, go old school!!
but there are cases where these judges do not like show bands period, i think they show have a judge from every style of marching to make it a fair competiton for all styles of band, so you can see what you need to work on in EVERY part in EVERY style so they can come back the next year with a more balenced sound, marching presision, and a well balenced band
and i have a question, has there ever been a case of a showband just getting tired of doing corp stlye for UIL and just come on the field pumpin 90s the entire field show, and something happened????
DrumMasterFDT said:
Do you think a Corps Style Band should keep their usual style if they come to a battle of the bands ??
Remember last year's quote from the state (Texas) UIL coordinator in a state wide news publication.... " ... showstyle or Gramburlesque style of marching is not the musical standard" ... ( which in my opinion was the most uneducated answer as to why MINORITIES... yes I said it!... don't get judge fairly in state ran UIL comp..., look at who is judging and making the rules...
if you want to argue about "setting musical standards" showstyle marching did not just start with US look at the band programs at Ohio, Mich., etc. ( whose band programs and colleges reflect those of the "standard bearer") whose historical 8 to 5 high knee lift were started BEFORE heal toe contemporary floating drills.
the question should not be ask should/ or should'nt we keep a style ... but rather who is the one ... based on HIS/HER perception be setting the standard based on their LIMITED , NON- CULTURAL BASED MUSIC EDUCATION? ...
If UIL can accept Mariarchi Music (which is based in Spanish culture) .... why not level the playing field when it comes to instrumental field comp. by including judges that share the an unlimited cultural biased opinion on what is the "standard"?... and include what we do as a part a fine arts.... BUT if it does not happen... is our "musical self esteem" really that low that we need this perceived " standard bearer" to validate OUR music...
WAKE UP! Band Revolutions begins 01-01-09 ....!
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